Ford, GM, Mercedes come clean on EV demand weakness

Hmmm… maybe Ford, GM and Mercedes are doing something wrong. :confused:

Tesla dropping prices and Ford/GM and others announcing that NEXT YEAR they are going to start producing models that can use Tesla chargers, is it any surprise that demand has slowed for them? Even Clark recommended waiting to buy an EV earlier in the year.

“In 2022, Rivian lost a staggering $6.8 billion; in 2021, it lost $4.7 billion; and in 2020, it shed another $1 billion, according to the filings. And the company reported it produced 24,337 vehicles and delivered 20,332 vehicles last year, meaning the company lost $33,087 per car delivered over the course of the entire year”

Sound familiar? Think of Solyndra etc…

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Sound familiar? … Think of GM and Chrysler:

It’s not limited to new EVs. Here’s an announcement I received last June from Volvo:
"Drivers of Volvo Cars’ current line-up of fully electric cars, from the XC40 and C40 Recharge to the recently revealed EX30 and EX90, will be able to find charging locations through the Volvo Cars app and are anticipated to be able to use the Supercharger network with an adapter from the first half of 2024.

Drivers of future Volvo cars equipped with the NACS charge port that wish to continue charging in the Combined Charging System (CCS) of chargers will be able to continue doing so with an adapter provided by Volvo Cars."

For the majority of today’s EV owners, none of this is a big deal. We charge at home! It easier and more convenient than filling up an ICE car at a filling station.

Amazon also announced a partnership with Rivian to bring 100,000 electric delivery vehicles on the road by 2030. Remember when Amazon was losing money every year for years? Apparently they see something in Rivian worth investing in.

In 2009, Tesla received a “$465 million USD loan from the United States Department of Energy” and went public the following year. However, it wasn’t until 2013 (a decade after its launch) that Tesla experienced its first profitable quarter.

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Wonder why it was necessary for them to go to the WH a few months go.

“According to the records, Podesta privately met with Rivian Automotive CEO Robert “RJ” Scaringe; the company’s senior policy director, Chris Nevers; its senior public policy manager, Corey Ershow; and Izzy Klein, a lobbyist for the EV maker, at the White House in June.”

" It is unclear what Rivian officials discussed with Podesta, and both the company and the White House didn’t respond to requests for comment."

Also this in January:
“The Tesla Inc. CEO met with top aides John Podesta and Mitch Landrieu”
Gee, I wonder what all these EV makers are up to? Just asking the question.

I live in GA so I guess I should really be questioning this since it is GA taxpayer money:

a central piece of its over $1.5 billion incentive package, which includes tax breaks, grants, free land, and infrastructure.

GA would benefit from the tax break because of the wages of taxes imposed on all the wages being paid to development and manufacturing workers.

But speaking of tax avoiders, fossil-fuel and big auto companies are among the biggest hogs at the feeding trough.

I work for a smaller automaker. A year or 2 ago we “adjusted” our plans for future EV production-basically pumping the breaks on converting. What we’re reading now makes sense. I guess those in HO called this correctly. Personally with range anxiety, charge stations still sparse and poor charger station maintenance/upkeep (I think I read about it in one of these Clark threads), my next vehicle purchase (2024) will still be fossil. I’m happy to go EV some day but it’s still too far from the tipping point for me. I’ll check back in 5 or so years.

?? SMALLER automaker? Which one would that be?

Aside from the big three, i can’t think of any other US ICE car manufacturers.

From a Forbes article today: (Oct. 30, 2023)

“Automakers initially touted EVs as electric variants of traditional combustion vehicles, which did themselves a disservice. That couldn’t be further from the truth, as EVs are as dissimilar to pure combustion vehicles as propellor aircraft are to jets. EVs are less complex to build, more technically advanced, and require far less maintenance than their gasoline- and diesel-powered equivalents. Consumers don’t understand the nuances between the two powertrains — especially because the added initial cost of an EV pays for itself with a much longer (and less expensive) service life.”

Where you get this stuff?.. it’s all cut-and-pasted elementary-school BS!

From JD Powers: " Generally, EV car batteries last from 10 to 20 years. Certain factors like heat, cold, or swift charging times can negatively affect that and reduce performance. "

And natural gas turbines do most US electrical power production with secondary heat recovery systems using the exhaust to power steam turbines.

Here’s what our electrical production energy sources looks like, courtesy Statistica:

And powering the planet with magical thinking crap like Nikola Tesla power waves? You’ve gotta be kidding!

A Tesla owner patient of mine is very upset at the Tesla decision to let other brand buyers use the charing stations. It has increased her wait time.

Would it make sense to have Ford gas stations and VW gas stations where only those cars could fill up? The charging stations have to become like gas stations where everyone can use them. This move by Tesla should result in more stations which should help to alleviate the long wait times. Also, they are working on solid state batteries that require a much shorter charge time. That should help too:

Toyota says the new technology will eventually enable EVs to go 932 miles on a single charge and power up in just 10 minutes

I think you are right!!!
BMW said the percentage of sales made up by fully electric cars rose to 15.1%

Our big three US automotive giants have never been very good at steering a course for the future. They were really good at image and appearances but short on foresight.

They pay their CEOs boatloads of money but they have to be led by the hand to the automotive future by the likes of Toyota, Honda and Tesla.

I think their stockholders should reevaluate their CEO plans, they aren’t getting their money’s worth.

The most I have heard claimed is 10 years.

But it depends on what capacity you are satisfied with. All rechargeable batteries lose capacity with age. Suppose your battery is functional at 13 years but only gives a range of 130 miles. Would you replace it?

Also individual cells can fail before the whole battery wears out. VW claims the owner can replace only defective cells.

The battery at the University of Oxford has been going at it for 184 years. :slightly_smiling_face: