Are We Nearing the EV Tipping Point?

What the video does not discuss are the challenges of lithium ion battery charging in non temperature controlled environments such as outdoor NYC where ambient temperatures can be 20 degrees or less in winter months. Not to mention the power grid requirements for simultaneous charging of EVs they want to explode in population.

The EV tipping point will come when enough people realize that current and foreseeable EV technology will only work for a narrow and select part of society as compared to the mass needed to replace ICE.

I fear that governments are taking us down a road in trying to force a technology that cannot meet the needs that an ICE can satisfy for the masses. Doing so will result in astronomical spending (money printing) then astronomical inflation then poverty on a scale not before seen. Energy is everything and freedom results from it.

I don’t think most here, given our ages, will live to see who is correct.

Billinin… your article is a tad dated… it was published [Updated: 6 Nov 2017, 14:16 UTC • Published: 18 Oct 2016, 15:44 UTC]six years ago.

Here’s a more up-to-date article:

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That is my issue. Retired now 15 years, my former job was a 110 mile RT away. I could afford an EV, I have secure, off-street parking and updated power so could easily add a charging port.

So I probably would have bought an EV.

That said, I live near downtown in a highly diverse, low income area, and 90% of my neighbors are renters. In my block there are two small apt buildings, so probably 50 families, and another 50 in either direction.

Those hundreds of families probably could not afford an EV, and charging an EV would be very difficult if not impossible.

I am amused at the polls indicating high EV popularity, but have ZERO poll questions about charging. Of course, EV’s are popular but they are impractical for half of Americans.

But anyone who mentions that are drowned out or cancelled,

I am also amused at those EV owners who claim they are “saving the planet” by not allowing any new powerplants, mining or oil drilling, Those actions have been moved off shore where environmental controls are non existent.

Those boasting, righteous people must think there is a giant cone above the US and all that world pollution won’t affect us,

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Dallas Prioritizes Equitable Access for EV Charging in Multifamily Housing

The city of Dallas and Dallas-Fort Worth Clean Cities (DFWCC) are working together to bring electric vehicle (EV) charging to all drivers, including people living in underserved communities and multifamily housing—also called multi-unit dwellings. This joint effort aims to improve equitable access to sustainable and affordable transportation options by increasing the number of EV charging stations in underserved areas.

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To my point, thank you.

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It appears you feel, that no matter what is done to curtail the burning of fossil fuels, it’s always wrong.

Do you really think that we can continue digging up carbon and burning it forever?

Simple math says you can’t.

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I don’t believe many people think this. I also believe the move to EV’s should be made so attractive, so wonderful, we trip over each other to get in line and buy one.

Instead, our gov’t has created Draconian rules to force us to comply.
Americans do not like to be forced into anything.

Meanwhile, the climate change gestapo tries to convince us this will ‘safe the planet’, and brimming with righteousness, sends high pollution activities offshore so other countries can manage it, and it mysteriously won’t affect our climate.

Mindboggling hypocrisy.

What will be used to generate the power required to charge these new batteries?

We’ll just dig up lithium, cobalt and other rare earth materials forever. Then figure out how to dispose of them when they’re useless.

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Long read but excellent. Thanks…!

Just a few highlights:

Civilization still depends on hydrocarbons for 84% of all energy, a mere two percentage points lower than two decades ago. Solar and wind technologies today supply barely 5% of global energy. Electric vehicles still offset less than 0.5% of world oil demand.

Added up over the past two decades, the cumulative subsidies across the world for biofuels, wind, and solar approach about $5 trillion,[32] all of that to supply roughly 5% of global energy.

Fully replacing hydrocarbons using SWB [solar/wind/battery]technologies would require a quantity of minerals that exceeds the known global reserves of those minerals

This means, in short, that regardless of price, policies, and mandates, the world won’t be able to build the machines to meet transition aspirations.

Morgan Stanley expects that EV makers will need to raise prices by 25% because of the lithium price explosion alone.[61] (Vehicle price increases have already been announced by Tesla and BYD, the world’s two biggest EV makers.)

In 2021, a broad analysis by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) concluded that energy transition plans would cause global metal prices to reach historical peaks “for an unprecedented, sustained period of roughly a decade.”

Volkswagen (VW) calculates that a diesel car emits less CO2 than an EV for the first 70,000 miles it is driven. How can this be? Fabricating one EV battery entails mining about 250 tons of rock to secure the minerals needed

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I’d be bit shy about associating myself with an outfit that has a history like the Manhattan Institute.

  1. Fifty years ago they backed big tobacco and today they are running interference for vaping suppliers.
  2. They are in big oil’s pocket and front for their interests.
  3. Most contributors are wealthy finance hedge-fund owners and lifetime anti-climate-change proponents.
    IOW… that are extremely biased… in any direction the money happens to flow from.

Global fossil-fuel electrical production was 63% in 2019, it’s going down every year. I know that people still burn carbon for heat and manufacturing but it’s not relevant to this conversation, In Africa some people use elephant dung to cook meals.

Fossil-fuel subsidies surged to a record $7 TRILLION IN ONE YEAR as governments supported consumers and businesses during the global spike in energy prices caused by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the economic recovery from the pandemic. Source IMF

Fully replacing hydrocarbons using SWB [solar/wind/battery] technologies would require a quantity of minerals that exceeds the known global reserves of those minerals. —> That’s a silly argument, no one is suggesting we generate ALL consumed power using SWB. We still have hydro, nuclear and geothermal alternatives as well.

"Morgan Stanley expects that EV makers will need to raise prices by 25% " … Morgan Stanly also thought selling derivatives was a good idea, they lost $37B on them when that decision turned out “not so good.”

In 2021, a broad analysis by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) concluded that energy transition plans would cause global metal prices to reach historical peaks “for an unprecedented, sustained period of roughly a decade.” … Any booming new market has that problem.

Volkswagen (VW) calculates that a diesel car emits less CO2 than an EV for the first 70,000 miles it is driven. How can this be? Fabricating one EV battery entails mining about 250 tons of rock to secure the minerals needed.” … I’d be careful depending on Volkswagen’s information about their diesel engines, remember DIESIELGATE? … Volkswagen emissions scandal - Wikipedia

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So, we should only read articles that support, sell, recommend, boost, EV’s?
Less bias…?

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As always this will most affect those that can afford it the least. Driving more closer to poverty, lowering standards of living. At some point we have to ask ourselves if this isn’t intentional.

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My sources good, your sources bad.

It’s really time to move on from this thread.
See Ya, on this one.

No… but it’s kidding ourselves to take as gospel the words published by those sources with hidden agendas. The conversion to EV’s is but a small step in what will eventually be necessary to stop pumping CO2 into the air that sustains life on our planet, but it’s not a bad place to start.

Good sources for info on things like EV’s are from folks who own one or from sources not biased by dependence on fossil-fuel interests. They are not for everyone at this time, but they are a step in the right direction. And they are fun to drive! :slightly_smiling_face:

We owe a lot to the fossil fuel industry for it’s contribution to our comfortable lifestyle. But now that we know this gift has a habit of crapping in our nests, it’s time to take steps to kick it out before that nest becomes a death trap.

It won’t be easy, it’ll be a painful and slow process, but is has to be done.

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So very true. See ya

From CarandDriver.com
Instead of trashing the batteries, auto recyclers (the businesses formerly known as junkyards) send them to specialist firms that dismantle the packs and break them down into their different materials: wires, circuitry, plastics, the actual cells. The cells and circuits are crushed to separate and purify the various metals in them, including nickel and lithium.

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Point-by-point response to Stossel’s video… :slightly_smiling_face:

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