Are We Nearing the EV Tipping Point?

Currently the average EV buyer is not the average car buyer. Many are people with above average means and those that have always had a fascination with what they have heard is the latest greatest gadget.

Its also nice to be retired and drive when you want to drive not when you have to drive in any possible condition. For the average 30’s something mom and dad with an average income, mortgage and SL debt it can be a costly experiment in the interim. Especially in very cold climates where not everyone has a garage. They could be taking the kids anywhere at anytime and range anxiety and the timing of recharges is an unknown. There exists limited history of trade in or resell value for a 10+ yr old EV compared to an ICE vehicle.

I don’t know much about the warranty on the EV battery but most warranties on expendable items will not include labor or dispose charges and the battery itself is normally pro-rated.

I purchased a used 2.5L 2021 Rav4 in 2022 and plan on driving it 15 yrs minimum. I have a good idea of annual costs going forward. EVs are still infancy culture and technology. Its coming along but for most there are too many unknowns to make a drastic technology change at present.

I sincerely thank the EV pioneers. For now I’ll be standing behind them, way behind, watching how it goes.

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That’s my view for now

That’s a pretty accurate description of any new car buyer, not just EV buyers.

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So, if you were in a sinking boat, you wouldn’t bail?

Carbon reduction buys time, maybe during that extra time a miracle will come along. :slightly_smiling_face:

Sure H200h, my concept of “bailing” is living car-free, wasn’t that clear from the first sent to wrote?

I want my fuel cell stations

Yes a 19th century technology that causes pollution with mining, creates child and slave labor and only cuts emissions by 20-30%. I prefer a fuel efficient ICE

I’ll be interested in 20th century technology when we have the fuel cell in the 22nd century

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I’d love to be an earlier adopter of fuel cell technology. I don’t know if those cars are the Hindenburg but it’s frustrating that one type of Ev is getting so much more attention than an actual clean vehicle


I’m too spoiled to live in a place that had a population density that would support mass transit. I lived in LA and San Diego for 10 years, left in 1970 and never looked back.

Deals can be had. Looking on TrueCar, I’ve seen Nissan Leafs that list for around $30k marked down to about $26,500, Kia Niro EVs listing for over $41k marked down below $34k, and Hyundai Ioniq 6 models listing for over $43k marked down to just above $31k. The more that come out, the more these will become a commodity, and prices will inevitably drop. There are also new battery types coming out that are cheaper to produce, so that will help cut prices as well.

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Depending on how much you drive, you may not need an upgrade. I charge my Nissan Leaf with a regular 120 volt outlet. If I drive around 5 miles or so, that might use about 3% of my battery’s charge. That usage can be replaced in about an hour on my regular AC outlet. So 25 miles replaced in about 5 hours, 50 miles in about 10, etc. I’m retired, so I typically don’t drive that far in a given day, and my car is sitting at home unused most of the time, so my regular outlet is entirely sufficient for me.

The current US auto unions’ strikes will probably affect new car sales for the next year. But, at the same time, it may also give auto makers time to build up a supply of critical EV-specific components to be on hand when the workers come back.

Not all vehicles on the road are produced by the UAW. I choose not to participate in the strike. I bought something they don’t make.

In 2022 the US big three auto manufacturers owned 40% of the US market. So I think it’s likely to have an impact on EV sales.

I’ve never let the place of manufacture or politics affect my car purchases, I buy based on what I want and what it costs. Out of the twenty or so cars I’ve owned in my life, eight were foreign-made, all the rest were GM, Ford and Chrysler products. Right now I own a Hyundai and a Volvo.

He used a poor title but has some points.


As usual, this guy is entertaining. But in the effort to present that entertainment he misrepresents, skews and confuses the issues by presenting misaligned and irrelevant comparisons.

Take any number in his video and compare it to the ICE equivalent and you can see that he’s comparing unlike and irrelevant issues. Like the fact that the US is burning 350,567,000 gal of gasoline a day. And he mentions the one-time transportation costs of getting EV batteries to manufacturing points when we spend 18 cents a gallon to get gasoline to filling stations.

I didn’t see much in the video about ICE comparison(s) but more about the real issues of processing, recycling and disposal of EV batteries after they can no longer serve their purpose.

The minute I heard his voice, I knew who created the video. At least I didn’t have to see him CONSTANTLY moving his arms and hands. You have to see his youtube videos to understand.

The de facto alternative to the EV is an ICE vehicle. Any criticism of the EV would be a comparison to that alternative. The fact that he doesn’t address correlating ICE vehicle data directly is because it would destroy his story. He’s an entertainer plain and simple, and I for one, wouldn’t take his opinion seriously.


  1. The average EV battery will last over 12 years, the average ICE car lifetime is 12 years.
  2. There’s about 2,000 moving parts in an ICE vehicle’s power train, an EV has around 20.
  3. Tesla recycles 100% of their batteries.
  4. Tesla warrants their model 3 for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first
  5. According to BloombergNEF, the average lithium-ion battery costs $151 per kilowatt-hour (kWh), and the average battery-powered electric vehicle (BEV) battery costs $138 per kWh.Feb 24, 2023. My Volvo has a 80 kWh battery, that’s $11,000 for a new battery, today… and the price has steadily declined over the last 10 years. A new engine for an ICE car costs $4-$10K and is increasing every year. A new ICE car transmission costs $1.8-$3.5K.
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As the number of EVs grow the number of future dead batteries will grow as well. It would appear we are currently creating a waste monster as the production of new batteries outpaces the recycle technology and their bi-product. The current recycle process is arduous. Those processes will need to be enhanced and who will pay for that? More taxpayer subsidies for the industry?

Not to mention the increase usage, recycle needs or waste of tires due to the EV weight being generally more than twice an ICE vehicle.

EV is still in its infancy and these issues will be bore out. I remain disciplined with an ICE vehicle.

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