Family member is POA for 93 yo friend who went to Nursing Home (NH) in Marine CA r/t falls. He has dementia, but remembers family. Patient wrote POA 20 or so years ago, giving family member his condo in a marginal neighborhood on death. Representative to NH drove POA to bank to observe finances, and POA had no clue as to why. He did not understand why the Rep was being so nice in the first few days, as POA does not have a vehicle.
Family member was patients personal assistant with aging process for 15 yrs.
NH had patient sign for access to his Visa #, and charged the first 2 months to visa.
NH had patient sign blank form to give them access to Visa from what family reports.
NH told POAs sister “he has to update POA paperwork to keep it current”.
We were to understand that POA is current until death.
NH also wants a form in CA stating that 2 Doctors have to sign a form with Notery stating that patient is demented prior to POA kicking in.
We were to understand that a diagnosis of dementia would be sufficient to prove patient cannot make sound decisions. His age would confirm that.
Does NH have any rights to make demented patient sign forms of any kind?
Do we need to update POA, if there is not reason to?
Do we need to prove w/2 docs he is not mentally capable if he has a diagnosis of dementia?
We want to know how far is the NH allowed to go, if they are not POA, and if patient signed something, is there any way to back peddle on this if he already has a POA?
There are no bad answers
Wow. People who are incapacitated cannot legally make decisions or sign paperwork. There are many types of Powers of Attorney, so the question is what the paperwork the family member has states. Specifically, what does it allow the holder to do, what triggers it, and what is the duration?
For example, many years ago I signed a POA allowing my parents to sign the paperwork in selling my home while I was deployed overseas. It was triggered and limited by specific dates and various conditions. This type of POA would not have any affect in dealing with an incapacitated person.
In the case of an elderly person, the two most common types of Powers of Attorney are for medical/health decisions and for handling all other personal/business matters. Typically these would be separate documents, and different states may have different requirements on what is covered by default. Different states also have different standards for declaring a person incapacitated.
These two types of POAs end at death, or when the non-incapacitated person makes changes to the paperwork. Once triggered by legal incapacity, only a court can change it.
Best case scenario, the nursing home wants to make sure the paperwork is correct and legal, and they know who to listen to if conflicting instructions are given. Worst case scenario, they are involved in financial elder abuse. It is common for a patient’s benefits being assigned, and paid directly to a nursing home; or by receiving payment directly from the patient’s bank account. We did not do that for my mother, and I would not advise it if there is someone who is able to send the payments.
Also, POA paperwork is not a will, and vice versa. Completely separate documents.
That the nursing home took the patient to their bank to observe their finances is a huge red flag. If they need income verification (or similar) providing a list of the information needed to the named POA, who can get back to them later would be the appropriate process. Not hauling a person with dementia to their bank!
Different states have different requirements for declaring a person incompetent. There are some that require two different medical professionals to make that declaration before it becomes affective.
I had something happen when my dad was in assisted living – his cognition had declined and I was his POA. Some rep from a counseling company had asked me to sign papers to give him counseling. I said “no”. What I didn’t know is they tried again and asked my (non-POA) sister. She signed, even though she was not managing his care in any way. Unbeknownst to me there were charges for counseling for “depression”. Months later I received insurance statements showing payments. I contacted the counseling company and demanded they stop, told them my sister was not POA and not authorized to sign anything, and if they didn’t stop, I’d report them to every agency in the state and contact and elder attorney. They stopped.
One of the problems with many, if not most assisted living/memory care/nursing homes is that they are for profit organizations, and also have frequent turnover of staff and administrators. While I don’t have a problem with profit, I do have a problem with supposedly caregiving organizations who focus on dollars, and have goals that relate to income and profit rather than quality care.