That was true with my dad, too, but Vanguard/Fidelity/etc. still wanted ME to submit a copy along with all the other paperwork. Same trust, 2 trustees, 2 copies of the trust document.
Fifteen?
Yes, just in case. I needed to get wife’s name off many accts, three banks, VG, TRP, etc, along with house deed, auto papers, insurances [several policies] utilities, trash, water, power, etc. I was astounded at the number.
The first D-certs were easy, but had to play the godawful city hall games for more. When thinking of everywhere my name appears as owner, I suggested fifteen.
After my wife passed away, I did some serious downsizing. This includes eliminating unnecessary accounts, canceling magazine subscriptions, stopping memberships and service subscriptions, etc. I also started going through the house to sell or donate items that are not needed. Children today do not want things like china sets, holiday decorations, old clothing, furniture, old photos, etc. The list goes on. Items that may have sentimental value have little or no value to those who may inherit them.
I also made sure that all of my accounts have a beneficiary, or a POD (payable on death) assigned to the account. I updated all of my estate planning documents too.
Document everything on paper. Put the documents in a safe place and make sure the eventual executor knows where the documents are. Do not rely on online places to store such documents and do not rely on a safe deposit box. Those locations may be inaccessible after a person dies.
One other thing, if you are a survivor for someone who dies, please make sure that person’s name is removed from all accounts and documents. This may sound cold, but it is necessary. I had a nephew who lost his mother. A couple of years later, his father passed away. He was responsible for all the business details following his father’s death. He discovered that his mother had never been removed from any legal documents. This included bank accounts, car ownership and loans, home ownership, and more. He told me it was a nightmare to clear everything up and, in some cases, it cost him money to get everything right.
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That’s about what I needed when my parents and my husband passed.
The more accounts there are, including non monetary things like physicians or memberships, the more you may need.
I was surprised even my utilities needed D-certs. Every one.
I guess I didn’t make myself clear.
I was asking if robertpri has given 15 copies of the trust document to his successor trustee. I’m afraid that he thinks that since he has given a copy of his trust document to his bank, Vanguard, TRP, etc (he had to, in order to change the title to the trust), that all his successor trustee will need to do is submit a death certificate. That thinking was wrong when I became successor trustee for my dad’s trust 20 years ago. My dad’s trust document named me as successor trustee, he submitted that trust document to Vanguard, Fidelity, etc., but after he died, I still had to submit a copy of the same trust document in order for them to recognize me as successor trustee. I know this doesn’t make sense, but that is the way it is (or was). I only had 2 copies of the trust, so everything got put on hold while I contacted the attorney to ask him to send me more copies.
So, knowing that robertpri is doing his best (an impressive job, IMHO) to make it quick and easy for his heirs, I am suggesting that he inquire with various places about what they’re gonna need from his successor trustee and get 15 copies of the trust document if that’s what they require.
I hope that’s clearer than mud now.
Also while I’m thinking of it, personal representatives/successor trustees will also need authority from the court or the trust document if they ever need to talk to the state or feds about tax returns.
Sorry, I was not clear. I meant 15 death certs.
In my case, the funeral home obtained the death certificates and enough copies for what I would need. They sent them to me, and I did not have to endure the ordeal of going to a government office to get them.
There are two types of death certificates. One type will show the cause of death. The second type does not have the cause of death information. Make sure you have copies of both types.
Some of the comments in this thread discussed the death of a spouse.I just listened to a podcast about a book that goes over how to manage being the surviving spouse. The book “After the Death of Your Spouse: Next Financial Steps for Surviving Spouses” is by Mike Piper. I have read some of his other excellent books.
Durin the podcast, Piper reviews some of the information in his book. I am adding this book to the top of the list that the surviving spouse in my marriage will have as a guide during the difficult transition.
This must be something specific to your state. It is not something relevant to the states where I have had to deal with loved ones deaths.
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Something like this would have been helpful for me and some friends who have lost our husbands. Dealing with the business of death while grieving can be emotionally difficult, and I know I continually ran into unhelpful roadblocks from the various people who were supposed to be helping (HR, life insurance, etc.). Frequently changing phone numbers, persons or departments to contact, and the like were incredibly frustrating. And that was the easy part.
You might ask your financial institution(s) about creating an account with a “transfer on death” (TOD) or “payable on death” (POD) provision. I think TOD and POD are essentially the same, just different in name. TOD accounts avoid the many problems that can arise by making someone other than your spouse a joint owner of your account. They keep the beneficiary from accessing the assets while you are alive.
You can set up a TOD account at a bank, credit union, brokerage, etc. After the death of the account owner, the beneficiary offers proof of the death of the account owner, and the financial entity provides the named person access to the funds quickly. TOD accounts bypass the probate process
Some people set up a TOD account with enough money to pay for their funeral expenses and other bills that they want the trusted recipient to pay while the will, trust, probate, etc. is processed.
It is wise to confer with someone who knows the laws of your state about TOD accounts, of course. But a TOD account may help answer the OP’s question.
Well, your executor/administrator is the one responsible for paying your bills, and they use the funds in your estate to pay them.
If you have a surviving spouse, and they share an account, they should be able to pay the bills. However, a spouse’s death is an extremely emotional time, and support and assistance from close family or friends, especially in the early days is helpful. If your survivors are adult children, siblings, relatives, friends, unless they are dependant on you, bills can wait until the executor/administrator receives court authorization affirming them in the position.
I checked with my bank and credit union on this. They both said no TOD/POD. If there is no joint owner on the account, upon death the account is closed. Once the executor gets the paperwork from probate court, they can then access the account(s), but it’s not that exactly because the account was closed – they just allow the executor to open an estate bank account with that money. So that doesn’t solve my original question at all.
My concern isn’t about the money being paid out to beneficiaries – that will happen. My original post is about how to continue paying bills that need to be paid if the account is closed. That is a problem.
I went through a small-scale version of this with my dad when he passed, and he had only a few bills that I managed. But I could no longer access his bank account or credit card account (to pay it off). That’s what prompted my question: if I were to pass (or even become incapacitated temporarily), there are still bills that need to be paid. For example, house utilities, water/sewer, property tax, etc. I have these pretty well set up on my bank account to be paid, but if they slam the account shut, that ends and nobody can access it and check on bills being paid.
So I’m not worried about TOD/POD – that money will be paid out. That’s not the problem. Paying ongoing bills it the problem!
If you have a solution, I’m all ears!
I just went through this with my Mom and was added as POD to her checking accounts. I am not sure why her bank won’t do that…..TOD/POD are valid ways to title an account. The whole purpose of this is to avoid probate. It can take awhile to clear probate in some states.
Can you just document the vendors, addresses, account numbers and payment amounts that are currently paid and then you can set them back up in the Estate Checking Account when she passes ? Not ideal, but it would work.
Hi, NancyM,
I apologize that my comment failed to address your original question.
If it were me, I think I would visit in person the utility companies, taxing entities, etc. that I was concerned would not get paid, and ask them (1) “What does your entity do when a customer dies, her bank account is closed or frozen by the bank, and she still owes you money?” You may find that they are more accommodating than you expect.
If they don’t suggest a solution, I would ask them (2) “What are the best ways you have seen conscientious, financially-responsible customers prepare for this situation?” Supervisors who have been there a long time have “seen it all.” They may be willing to tell you what other (unnamed) customers have done even if they are forbidden to give you financial advice. Maybe you can get some good ideas that way. As we both know, situations vary; one size does not fit all. I wish you well.
G
PS If your situation changes and a TOD/POD would solve a problem for you, you apparently will need to open an account with one of the financial institutions that do offer them, such as US Bank, Chase Bank, Wells Fargo Bank, PNC, mutual fund companies like Dodge & Cox Investments, and brokerages like Merrill Lynch and Charles Schwab, Inc. But I know the feeling of not wanting to add another account and another financial institution. My wife and I have been reducing our number of accounts and limiting the number of financial institutions we do business with. That is both for our sakes now and for our daughters’ sake when they eventually have to manage our financial affairs.
These days, there is no such thing as stopping in at the utility’s office to talk to a person!
My solution for paying bills was to add a trusted person (also my executor) to my bank account, so if I pass, it remains open. Then all of the bills that are set to auto-pay will continue to be paid until those accounts need to be closed, and bills that need to be manually paid (like taxes) can be set up from that account. The executor only needs to make sure that there’s enough money to cover the bills (which should become minimal), and that shouldn’t be a problem (I have arrangements for providing money to replenish the account). I have a listing of all bills that need to be paid, and how they are paid (auto-pay, manual pay (like quarterly property and federal taxes), or privacy.com credit card).
I have also stopped paying most monthly bills by credit card to using Privacy.com which is linked to my bank account, so those credit cards won’t shut down when I pass. So those auto-pay bills on privacy.com will continue until the account or privacy card is cancelled. I intend this for things like keeping my phones alive a bit (for 2FA access to some accounts).
But again, my original post was more about continuing paying bills that were needed, mostly related to having a house, plus quarterly tax payments.
I understand TOD/POD, but my original post was about how to pay bills. I currently own a house, and in my state, there is a simpler probate process when there is no real estate and very little money. Everyone else has to do probate.
I’m not worried about the bank eventually paying out the money. I’m not worried about avoiding probate. My question was about how to continue having bills paid in a simpler manner. I’m not asking about TOD/POD or probate!! Neither of those answers my original question!!
I have most bills set up to be paid from my bank account and if/when it closes, then the payments stop. So then, the executor has to figure out payment of every monthly and quarterly bill from scratch!
So I was asking about a smoother way for the executor to keep bills paid, rather than setting up a whole new account, setting up every single bill to be paid, etc.
I guess it depends on the institution. My mom and dad had 2 joint checking accounts. One was for bill pay and the other was essentially a fun account. When my dad died, my Mom and I went into each bank and they invalidated his login credentials and setup credentials for my Mom. The accounts did not close. The only nuance was that since the bank used a 3rd party bill pay provider, my mom did not have any of them setup. Apparently, the payees, account #s, addresses, payment history, and scheduled payments are all attached to the bill pay profile of the user, not the underlying account. The bank was able to submit a ticket to bill pay provider and have my dads profile copied over to my moms new profile. The scheduled payments and payment history did not copy over, but everything else did.
Not sure if this is helpful, but it was our experience.
I have my pension, social security and IRA deposits made automatically and I have my credit cards and most utilities set to autopay on the due date. So that first month anything that comes in should just pay. By the second month things should be settling down. But I let the Electric and Gas company debit my account directly (I know, everybody says no but I”ve been doing it 20 yearrs with no problems).
I set my bank account up as Transfer on Death to my daughter. I did that after my sister died and nobody had access to her bank account. But my “estate” is pretty small especially since I’m single and my daughter is an only child.