# Tim Worstall: "America's Real Poverty Rate Is Around And About Zero" **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [January 29, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155 "2023-01-29T15:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PropofolMask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6f9a4e/32.png) [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/1 "2023-01-29T15:44:15Z")
How would Clark Howard respond to this piece from 2015? > **[America's Real Poverty Rate Is Around And About Zero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/09/17/americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/?sh=2d8097bb5c6a)** > > Yesterday Census gave us the updated poverty numbers for 2014 for the United States. The percentage of the population said to be in poverty, dependent upon the definition you want to use, is 14.8% or 15.3%. But it is, however, just as true to state... Let’s not get **too** political in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![geezerpk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@geezerpk](https://community.clark.com/u/geezerpk)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/2 "2023-01-29T17:59:06Z")
> [@PropofolMask](#): > > Let’s not get **too** political in this thread. Can’t get past the paywall on this link, but I do see it’s from 2014. I suspect, though, that the much lower figures are based on a method that considers the worldwide poverty situation, not just the U.S. I suspect many of those considered poverty-stricken in this country might qualify as rather well off in some third-world countries. Other sources contend that the “real rate” in the U.S. is actually higher than the most widely published numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Maymey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Maymey](https://community.clark.com/u/Maymey)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/3 "2023-01-29T21:10:46Z")
I won’t get political, but I will get grammatical. “Around and about zero” is redundant (each and every time). ---
**Author:** ![Smartpolitics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Smartpolitics](https://community.clark.com/u/Smartpolitics)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/4 "2023-01-30T13:05:14Z")
> [@geezerpk](#): > > Other sources contend that the “real rate” in the U.S. is actually higher than the most widely published numbers. Cost of living is definitely an overlooked measure in poverty statistics. In one area of the country, you might be able to get by much better than in another area of the country. Living in West Virginia or south central PA is a lot cheaper than living in southwest Maryland ---
**Author:** ![Henrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/87869e/32.png) [@Henrius](https://community.clark.com/u/Henrius)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/5 "2023-02-02T02:36:05Z")
All I can say is anyone who want a job can have 3 if they want it, the labor shortage is so severe. Young people want minimum of $15 an hour for me to train them. Untrained employees are money-losers for at least 3 months. Anyone poor these days really has no work ethic and probably cannot manage money. Of course, it doesn’t help when the government debases the currency. ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/6 "2023-02-03T16:37:50Z")
> [@Henrius](#): > > Anyone poor these days really has no work ethic and probably cannot manage money. Of course, it doesn’t help when the government debases the currency. There are many reasons that people live in poverty. There are also many people of means who have never taken the opportunity, time & trouble to delve into the subject. The education is free, it’s called volunteering. ---
**Author:** ![Henrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/87869e/32.png) [@Henrius](https://community.clark.com/u/Henrius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/7 "2023-02-04T03:52:40Z")
> [@H200h](#): > > There are many reasons that people live in poverty. There are also many people of means who have never taken the opportunity, time & trouble to delve into the subject. > > The education is free, it’s called volunteering. People can work their arses off in the 3rd world and still be poor. Not so in the USA. The number 1 predictor of poverty in the USA is teen pregnancy. I helped fund a preacher’s feed-the-homeless program in Atlanta. He told me what Medical College of Georgia studies in Augusta had found out long ago. Virtually all the homeless population are either addicts of one sort or another, or mental cases who would not regularly take medication. Schizophrenics are high on the list of those that won’t ---
**Author:** ![Smartpolitics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Smartpolitics](https://community.clark.com/u/Smartpolitics)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 3:55am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/8 "2023-02-04T03:55:25Z")
> [@Henrius](#): > > Virtually all the homeless population are either addicts of one sort or another, or mental cases who would not regularly take medication Agreed. People that make wrong choices in life can be homeless. For some, medications treat mental illness. But others are truly disabled and not receiving the genuine help they need because of the freeloaders who want to bum off the taxpayer ---
**Author:** ![Henrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/87869e/32.png) [@Henrius](https://community.clark.com/u/Henrius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 4:00am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/10 "2023-02-04T04:00:06Z")
It is a rare person who has a disability that cannot perform some useful task for society. Feeling useful is a very important key to happiness and self-fulfillment. ---
**Author:** ![Smartpolitics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Smartpolitics](https://community.clark.com/u/Smartpolitics)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/11 "2023-02-04T04:08:02Z")
> [@Henrius](#): > > The number 1 predictor of poverty in the USA is teen pregnancy. Part of that is the war on poverty. Part of it is cultural. We don’t teach OUR MEN to be dads. Masculinity isn’t toxic. It’s about taking care of one’s family and avoiding Peter Pan syndrome HS is incredibly easy to graduate. You can be in remedial English, science, and history classes and get by with algebra and geometry. Child development, learning how to cook, do household chores, iron clothes, understand basic home maintenance such as how to shut off the water supply, and learn how to budget and balance a checkbook should be a graduation requirement ---
**Author:** ![Smartpolitics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Smartpolitics](https://community.clark.com/u/Smartpolitics)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 4:11am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/12 "2023-02-04T04:11:51Z")
> [@Henrius](#): > > It is a rare person who has a disability that cannot perform some useful task for society. Feeling useful is a very important key to happiness and self-fulfillment. Definitely agree. ---
**Author:** ![clydewolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clydewolf](https://community.clark.com/u/clydewolf)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/13 "2023-02-04T15:24:37Z")
But are they qua;lified? "_All I can say is anyone who want a job can have 3 if they want it"_ Our son-in-law was doing a brake job on his suburban. He needed 2 clips to complete the job. To get the clips he needed to purchase a kit. Called auto zone, “the kit is not available”. Same story at NAPA. Went on line, the kit is available at a different Auto Zone. He goes to this second Auto Zone and is told they do not have the brake kit. He looks at what the employee had entered, “BREAK Kit”. When changed to “BRAKE Kit” they had the kit. ---
**Author:** ![Henrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/87869e/32.png) [@Henrius](https://community.clark.com/u/Henrius)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/14 "2023-02-05T02:42:51Z")
It is incredible the marginal employees I have had to hire and train, just to get any help at all. No social skills at all. Never in my life have I seen employees so in demand. And the government still pays people to be on welfare and do nothing at all?! ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/15 "2023-02-06T19:00:40Z")
To summarize our feelings on the subject then is has to be: "it’s those “OTHER PEOPLE,” doggone it, the ones that aren’t like US! Yeah, that’s the problem… it’s those OTHER PEOPLE! 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/16 "2023-02-07T01:59:52Z")
> [@H200h](#): > > To summarize our feelings on the subject then is has to be: "it’s those “OTHER PEOPLE,” doggone it, the ones that aren’t like US! > > Yeah, that’s the problem… it’s those OTHER PEOPLE! 🤨 After reviewing the posts on this the only way someone could come to that conclusion is if they were predisposed to do so. Creating dots that don’t exist then connecting them. ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 4:38am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/17 "2023-02-07T04:38:58Z")
> [@billinin](#): > > After reviewing the posts on this the only way someone could come to that conclusion is if they were predisposed to do so. Creating dots that don’t exist then connecting them. Hmmm… OK, lets connect some dots… the blame game started with post #5 #5: “Anyone poor these days really has no work ethic and probably cannot manage money. Of course, it doesn’t help when the government debases the currency.” #6: There are many reasons that people live in poverty. There are also many people of means who have never taken the opportunity, time & trouble to delve into the subject. The education is free, it’s called volunteering. #7: “The number 1 predictor of poverty in the USA is teen pregnancy.” and “Virtually all the homeless population are either addicts of one sort or another, or mental cases who would not regularly take medication. Schizophrenics are high on the list of those that won’t” #8 “:Agreed. People that make wrong choices in life can be homeless” #9: "It is a rare person who has a disability that cannot perform some useful task for society. " #10: “Part of that is the war on poverty. Part of it is cultural.” #11: (in response to #9) “Definitely agree.” #12: " But are they qualified? "_All I can say is anyone who want a job can have 3 if they want it"_ “He looks at what the employee had entered, “BREAK Kit”… " When changed to “BRAKE Kit” they had the kit.” #13: “It is incredible the marginal employees I have had to hire and train, just to get any help at all. No social skills at all” Looks to me like they are connected, I think the average casual observer would come up with similar conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/18 "2023-02-07T15:06:58Z")
> [@H200h](#): > > To summarize our feelings on the subject then is has to be: "it’s those “OTHER PEOPLE,” doggone it, the ones that aren’t like US! > > Yeah, that’s the problem… it’s those OTHER PEOPLE! 🤨 > [@H200h](#): > > Hmmm… OK, lets connect some dots… the blame game started with post #5 Thank you for reinforcing my point. The posters above are describing behaviors of some people, not OTHER people that aren’t like US as you put it. By creating unrelated dots and connecting them you turned their posts into “those OTHER PEOPLE that aren’t like us.” Find a post that said "it’s those “OTHER PEOPLE,” doggone it, the ones that aren’t like US! Hint: there’s only one. It’s about behaviors not “those OTHER people.” ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/19 "2023-02-07T16:39:46Z")
> [@billinin](#): > > It’s about behaviors not “those OTHER people.” _Some_ people vs _other_ people? I suggest that if a person describes _some_ people who are responsible for an undesirable societal situation with words like “poor,” “homeless,” “has no work ethic,” “pregnant teen,” “addicts,” “mental incompetents,” “unable to spell simple words,” and “having no social skills,” they are not describing people like themselves. They are describing people not like themselves. That makes them _other people_. They are laying the blame on those _other people_. As in those _other people_ who are _different_ than themselves. Do you really think a dentist identifies with the homeless? I suggest to you that our social strata is more influenced by wealth than it is by most other socio-economic attributes. If you mistook my use of the word “other” to refer to racial or ethnic differences then you misunderstood my intent, and connected some dots that were not present. My reponse was based solely on the descriptors in the posts that I quoted in my response. ---
**Author:** ![geezerpk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@geezerpk](https://community.clark.com/u/geezerpk)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/20 "2023-02-07T16:54:32Z")
> [@H200h](#): > > I suggest to you that our social strata is more influenced by wealth than it is by most other socio-economic attributes. Nicely put, and so true… and probably not the optimal way for it to occur. ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155/21 "2023-02-07T17:00:49Z")
Find a post that said "it’s those “OTHER PEOPLE,” doggone it, the ones that aren’t like US! Hint: there’s only one. [Next page](https://community.clark.com/t/tim-worstall-americas-real-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/2155.md?page=2)