# Are We Nearing the EV Tipping Point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cars\ **Created:** [September 20, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492 "2023-09-20T14:58:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/41 "2023-09-24T20:04:17Z")
> [@billinin](#): > > As the number of EVs grow the number of future dead batteries will grow as well. It would appear we are currently creating a waste monster as the production of new batteries outpaces the recycle technology and their bi-product. The current recycle process is arduous. Those processes will need to be enhanced and who will pay for that? More taxpayer subsidies for the industry? EV batteries are 80-90% recyclable, the fact that they contain valuable materials makes the recycling of them profitable. But the question is a tad premature because after 8-15 years of use in an EV they still have another 10-20 years service life as storage for solar-generated power. So the concern over massive problems created by a “waste monster” are most likely both premature and over hyped. I’d worry a little more about the CO2 being pumped into our atmosphere by ICE cars. We are burning 370,000,000 gals of gasoline a day and each gallon produces 20 lbs of CO2. That’s **7,400,000,000 lbs of CO2 each day.** ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/42 "2023-09-24T20:35:05Z")
If we are nearing the EV tipping point end the taxpayer financing of each EV sold and see how the industry handles it. ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/43 "2023-09-25T02:14:56Z")
[![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/clark/original/2X/3/3509e994ff3f5cc322b55af0b355945dfcba7055.jpeg "A dozen “Green” OPECs") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTYFSAM4Vz0) ---
**Author:** ![robertpri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@robertpri](https://community.clark.com/u/robertpri)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/44 "2023-09-25T02:25:39Z")
I love the term, “virtuous carbon footprint” ---
**Author:** ![robertpri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@robertpri](https://community.clark.com/u/robertpri)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:29am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/45 "2023-09-25T04:29:36Z")
> [@H200h](#): > > each gallon produces 20 lbs of CO2. As I recall, gas weighs 6.7 lbs. / gallon How does that create 20 lbs of CO2? ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 5:18am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/46 "2023-09-25T05:18:53Z")
> [@robertpri](#): > > As I recall, gas weighs 6.7 lbs. / gallon How does that create 20 lbs of CO2? During combustion the carbon atoms in the gasoline combine with oxygen atoms in the compressed atmosphere in the engine cylinders to make CO2. The weight of the CO2 is equal to that combination (1 carbon atom + 2 oxygen atoms.) The carbon in a gal of gasoline weighs about 5.5 lbs and the oxygen that combines with that 5.5 lbs of carbon weighs another 14.5 lbs. So the total output of CO2 from burning a gallon of gasoline is a little over 20 lbs. That 14.5 lbs of oxygen comes through the intake valves of the combustion chambers. The near-thorough combustion of the gasoline just provides the ideal conditions for the creation of the CO2. The IC engine scavenges the oxygen though the intake and makes the formation of the CO2 more efficient. That’s why burning gasoline at atmospheric levels of oxygen will throw off less CO2 and more carbon, like the black smoke you see if you burn a bit of gasoline in the open, it’s the escaping carbon particles from the carbon in the gasoline that didn’t combine with oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![robertpri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@robertpri](https://community.clark.com/u/robertpri)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 7:55am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/47 "2023-09-25T07:55:11Z")
Looked it up. I did not know that [or understand it] ---
**Author:** ![OU812](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/community.clark.com/ou812/32/1549_2.png) [@OU812](https://community.clark.com/u/OU812)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/48 "2023-09-25T14:57:46Z")
What is funny is that the WSJ article he references in the video [https://www.wsj.com/economy/global/as-opecs-energy-influence-wanes-chinas-minerals-clout-rises-68ef2e42](https://www.wsj.com/economy/global/as-opecs-energy-influence-wanes-chinas-minerals-clout-rises-68ef2e42) shoots down all his arguments. The subtitle says it all: ## But geography and innovation mean cobalt, lithium and copper can never be weaponized as effectively as oil and gas And in the article it says: Export restrictions or attempts to form an OPEC-like cartel would in time elevate prices and spur the hunt for alternatives, much as higher oil prices in the 1970s spurred production in the North Sea and Alaska’s North Slope. A recently discovered lithium deposit in a volcanic crater along the Oregon-Nevada border could be the world’s largest Besides geographic diversification, renewable energy benefits from technological diversification. De La Noue notes that copper competes with aluminum in electrical wiring, while lithium, nickel and cobalt all compete with one another in battery chemistry. Innovators are working on sodium-ion and [iron-air batteries](https://www.wsj.com/articles/startup-claims-breakthrough-in-long-duration-batteries-11626946330?mod=article_inline) that use no lithium. ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/49 "2023-09-25T15:11:15Z")
Here’s what Peter St Onge, the star of your video, had to say about bitcoin on April 30, 2021: “In sum, a world running on a Bitcoin Standard would be totally familiar to us today, yet better in important ways. It might be a world where creation pays light years better than conflict, where you can enjoy the fruits of your hard work without schemers siphoning your life savings while you sleep. A world where the next generation is excited by inventing things and solving long-standing challenges, rather than fighting one another in some Hobbesian cosplay that keeps us running to stay in place.” The guy LOVES bitcoin, and we all know about THAT success story. I’d think twice before taking advice from a TikTok phenom/Herirage Foundation Research Fellow. ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/50 "2023-09-25T15:19:06Z")
End the taxpayer financing of each EV and see how the industry does. ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/51 "2023-09-25T15:41:03Z")
> [@billinin](#): > > End the taxpayer financing of each EV and see how the industry does. Let’s end the [$20 BILLION direct tax subsidies to the Fossil Fuel Industry](https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-reduce-fossil-fuel-subsidies-2021) and see how THEY do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/52 "2023-09-25T16:01:11Z")
Hey billin… are these guys brothers? ![brother 2](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/clark/original/2X/7/7587f0089ed1613ebe76b0e9fd20f0a4194b4011.jpeg) ![brother-1](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/clark/original/2X/f/f1e33baedc13c06828a42630414210b291484fa4.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/53 "2023-09-25T16:10:34Z")
Quite the difference for an industry subsidy than an individual $7500 credit on a tax return. End that credit for the end user and see how the industry does. ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/54 "2023-09-25T18:11:26Z")
Yeah… the difference is around **$19 billion dollars** … in favor of **big oil**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sbro4630](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@sbro4630](https://community.clark.com/u/sbro4630)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/55 "2023-09-25T18:46:42Z")
It’s hard to shake the stereotypes and politicization of EVs, so who knows. Most people who don’t want them have never sat down to run the numbers. For example, most people have a near 0% need of a place outside of their home to charge an EV. You charge it at home and can get around 300 miles on a charge. Most people don’t drive that much in a day. I drive 60 miles round trip in my Chevy Bolt EV to work. I charge it a little over once a week and we use it in the evenings as much as possible, since it’s so much cheaper to drive per mile. It cost me $25K new right off the lot in 2021, so the notion that EVs are only for the ultra wealthy or that you need government to afford it is nonsense (I didn’t get a tax credit), since the average price of a new car right now is $43K. I crunched the numbers and it’s saving me $2,000+ every year in gas and maintenance (net savings). It would have been stupid for me to purchase a gas car for my situation. ---
**Author:** ![H200h](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e79b87/32.png) [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/56 "2023-09-25T19:00:59Z")
> [@sbro4630](#): > > I drive 60 miles round trip in my Chevy Bolt EV to work. I charge it a little over once a week and we use it in the evenings as much as possible, since it’s so much cheaper to drive per mile. I just read an article that said the best charging regimen for maximum battery life was to plug it in every night and keep the level between 50% and 80%. I use a ChargePoint level 2 charger and it shuts off when the battery reaches the designated battery charge. It’s on wifi so it’s easy to keep track of with my cell phone app. ---
**Author:** ![sbro4630](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@sbro4630](https://community.clark.com/u/sbro4630)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/57 "2023-09-25T19:04:39Z")
Thanks for that tip! That’s the charger brand I have. I will adjust that now. ---
**Author:** ![billinin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/58 "2023-09-25T20:04:50Z")
> **[Massachusetts Trucking Executive Urges Congress to Set Achievable Emissions](https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/massachusetts-trucking-executive-urges-congress-set-achievable-emissions)** > > Boyle warns against unrealistic timelines and state regulatory patchworks >   [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/clark/original/2X/f/f3258a29ff141c10d06492ff1c31dcf7e127af37.jpeg "There's nowhere near enough power on the grid to convert the U.S. truck fleet to battery electric.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCoAsPtgRKg) [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/clark/original/2X/5/59a350b2c8bf0bc60b399a9d00628b4aff2f845f.jpeg "EV Fail. Shocker, the cold destroys your ability to charge your EV.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK4MgZArZD0) ---
**Author:** ![Buynuthin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@Buynuthin](https://community.clark.com/u/Buynuthin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/59 "2023-09-25T20:51:36Z")
Not even near the tipping point. Only higher income people who can charge at home are buying EVs. The rest off the population will have to ‘eat cake’. ---
**Author:** ![AustinBonds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AustinBonds](https://community.clark.com/u/AustinBonds)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492/60 "2023-09-25T21:36:39Z")
Apartment dwellers will have a heck of a time conveniently charging an EV. [Previous page](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.clark.com/t/are-we-nearing-the-ev-tipping-point/3492.md?page=4)