# AP: "San Francisco’s downtown becomes a wake-up call for other cities"
**URL:** https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195
**Category:** Uncategorized
**Created:** [July 16, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195 "2023-07-16T14:49:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/1 "2023-07-16T14:49:07Z")
[https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/san-francisco-downtown-wake-up-call-cities-18202995.php](https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/san-francisco-downtown-wake-up-call-cities-18202995.php)
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### Author:  [@robertpri](https://community.clark.com/u/robertpri)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/2 "2023-07-16T18:36:40Z")
Sad, but no surprise
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### Author:  [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/3 "2023-07-16T18:46:41Z")
Well, robertpri, the article does admit that the downtown areas of Seattle and Portland aren’t doing too well either. I imagine you are aware of the fact that the [central business districts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_business_district) of various cities and towns in the United States went into decline during the 1956-91 period due to freeways bypassing CBDs.
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### Author:  [@butler](https://community.clark.com/u/butler)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/4 "2023-07-16T19:33:22Z")
A natural result of extremely poor leadership…
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### Author:  [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/5 "2023-07-16T23:31:00Z")
Well, butler, you might want to check out this piece by Aaron M. Renn:
> **[Cities Aren't Dying But They Do Face Real Challenges](https://www.aaronrenn.com/p/cities-arent-dying-but-they-do-face)**
>
> You’ve probably seen photos or videos of huge homeless encampments in America’s cities, like the ones in this Daily Mail article about Portland. You’ve probably seen footage of brazen shoplifting in San Francisco
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### Author:  [@robertpri](https://community.clark.com/u/robertpri)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/6 "2023-07-16T23:55:31Z")
> [@PropofolMask](#):
>
> Well, butler, you might want to check out this piece by Aaron M. Renn:
It does not diminish what butler said. In fact, poor governing is noted in the article. “…and bad governance.”
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### Author:  [@butler](https://community.clark.com/u/butler)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/7 "2023-07-17T00:50:41Z")
> [@PropofolMask](#):
>
> Well, butler, you might want to check out this piece by Aaron M. Renn:
Not all cities are in trouble…you just have to look at the ones in trouble and see what they have in common.
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### Author:  [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/8 "2023-07-17T00:54:56Z")
Well, butler, we need to keep in mind that TPTB don’t want these message boards to become too political. Still, I’d like to hear what Clark Howard has to say about how big-city downtowns can remain relevant.
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### Author:  [@robertpri](https://community.clark.com/u/robertpri)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/9 "2023-07-17T01:35:53Z")
> **[San Francisco's downtown 'never going back to the way it was,' Salesforce's...](https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/san-franciscos-downtown-never-back-way-salesforces-marc-benioff)**
>
> Salesforce CEO says San Francisco's downtown 'never going back to the way it was' as downtown officials struggle with businesses leaving The Golden City.
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### Author:  [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/10 "2023-07-17T15:04:29Z")
I think a lot of folks jump to conclusions to match their view of the world when it comes to things like the homeless in our cities. When you look at the situation objectively there are lots of explanations for it that are easily overlooked. Here are two examples:
1. Cost of Living
There’s a direct correlation between the cost of living and the number of homeless people in most places. The highest percentage of homelessness occurs in those areas with the highest cost to live. ie: HI, DC and most cities in CA rate among the highest cost-of-living and also rate among the places with the highest rates of homelessness.
2. Income
There’s a direct correlation between the places with higher average income levels and homelessness as well.
> **[Which states have the highest and lowest rates of homelessness?](https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-highest-and-lowest-rates-of-homelessness/)**
>
> California, Vermont, and Oregon have the highest rates of homelessness across the 50 states.
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### Author:  [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)
#### Post date: [July 17, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/11 "2023-07-17T16:29:10Z")
It’s no secret that the rise in remote work is a big reason why so many big-city downtowns have been struggling as of late. Clark Howard acknowledged New York City’s recent office issues in today’s edition of _The Clark Howard Show_.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy7Qct7p6UM&t=667)
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### Author:  [@sefortenberry](https://community.clark.com/u/sefortenberry)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/12 "2023-07-19T18:05:54Z")
I recall shopping in downtown San Francisco in 2005. Wonderful stores. Walkable city. The urban outdoorsman were already moving into Union Square Park and harrassing people. Don’t think interstates caused people to abandon San Francisco’s downtown.
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### Author:  [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/13 "2023-07-19T18:11:55Z")
Well, sefortenberry, I imagine that residents of small cities with struggling downtowns would like to tell San Francisco residents, “Welcome to **our** world.”
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### Author:  [@mikie](https://community.clark.com/u/mikie)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/14 "2023-07-19T18:46:28Z")
The whole article danced around the crime problem. San Fran has the neat little rule that anyone can walk into an establishment, load up their shopping cart and leave without paying as long as it’s under $950. If you’re caught (highly, highly unlikely) and charged, it’s a misdemeanor, and more than likely thrown out by a progressive judge. Not politically correct to mention this as a reason for SF’s decline, is it?
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### Author:  [@PropofolMask](https://community.clark.com/u/PropofolMask)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/15 "2023-07-19T18:49:56Z")
As I have previously said, mikie, we need to keep in mind that TPTB don’t want these message boards to become too political.
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### Author:  [@Buynuthin](https://community.clark.com/u/Buynuthin)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/16 "2023-08-05T20:50:24Z")
Seattle has the opportunity to elect a lot of new city council members later this year. So, that might start a change. Or maybe not. I don’t know.
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### Author:  [@Buynuthin](https://community.clark.com/u/Buynuthin)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/17 "2023-08-05T20:51:58Z")
I think the $950 limit to prosecute shoplifting was voter approved at the state level, but I am not sure of that.
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### Author:  [@billinin](https://community.clark.com/u/billinin)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/18 "2023-08-06T01:46:33Z")
> [@H200h](#):
>
> I think a lot of folks jump to conclusions to match their view of the world when it comes to things like the homeless in our cities. When you look at the situation objectively there are lots of explanations for it that are easily overlooked. Here are two examples:
>
> 1. Cost of Living
> There’s a direct correlation between the cost of living and the number of homeless people in most places. The highest percentage of homelessness occurs in those areas with the highest cost to live. ie: HI, DC and most cities in CA rate among the highest cost-of-living and also rate among the places with the highest rates of homelessness.
> 2. Income
> There’s a direct correlation between the places with higher average income levels and homelessness as well.
And all this time we were told it was drug abuse and mental illness as primary causes of homelessness.
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### Author:  [@robertpri](https://community.clark.com/u/robertpri)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/19 "2023-08-06T03:32:54Z")
> [@sefortenberry](#):
>
> I recall shopping in downtown San Francisco in 2005.
Wife and I lived in SF for years. We met there. As time passed, we would return to visit our fave places, restaurants, parks, etc. We stopped some years ago. Too dirty, run down, and dangerous.
We used to walk Market St for the shops, but didn’t even want to drive it.
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### Author:  [@H200h](https://community.clark.com/u/H200h)
#### Post date: [August 6, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://community.clark.com/t/ap-san-francisco-s-downtown-becomes-a-wake-up-call-for-other-cities/3195/20 "2023-08-06T13:59:12Z")
> [@billinin](#):
>
> And all this time we were told it was drug abuse and mental illness as primary causes of homelessness.
Mental illness and drug abuse would be among many if not most cases of homelessness. But you’ll have to admit there are many people affected by both who are not homeless nor destitute.
In many cases it’s a matter of the two you mentioned plus things like debilitating accidents or any of a host of other reasons. Luck plays a role in everyone’s life, including yours and mine.
It begins with good or bad luck in your choice of parents. 🙂
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